[外絮] 湖人的33連勝比熱火更優已回收

看板NBA作者 (=\)時間11年前 (2013/03/28 07:34), 編輯推噓57(913475)
留言200則, 126人參與, 最新討論串1/1
原文:http://ppt.cc/D5a1 原文太長,只做摘要翻譯 Not to disagree with LeBron James, but I disagree with LeBron James. And so does Jerry West. 不是為了反對LBJ而反,不過我和West都不認同LBJ。 James says the NBA wasn't as competitive in 1971-72 as it is now because the ABA was a separate league then. Therefore, the 33-game winning streak by West's Los Angeles Lakers that season is a watered-down light beer compared to the Heat's Dom Perignon streak of 27 and counting. LBJ認為1971-72年的湖人受到的挑戰沒有現代籃球大, 因為當時ABA和NBA還沒合併,就像稀釋過的啤酒一樣。 Sorry, LeWrong, but (A) no, and (B) hell, no. 但是你錯錯錯錯錯惹~ Let me count the ways that what the Lakers did then is harder than what the Heat are doing now, even if they get to 33, starting with … 我要用七大原因來打LBJ的臉: 1. Yes, the ABA The 1971-72 ABA had only 11 rickety teams and was doing more folding than a Gap clerk. Most really good players didn't want to take the risk. It had some legends, but after Julius Erving (Virginia), Rick Barry (New York), Dan Issel (Kentucky), Billy Cunningham (Carolina) and Artis Gilmore (Kentucky), the talent pool went downhill faster than Vince Wilfork on a water slide. After the merger in 1976, four teams transferred into the NBA plus another dozen or so other players. "If they were so great, why didn't we see them in the league?" West asks. I know why. I was 18 then. I loved the ABA, but even I knew most of those guys couldn't have made an NBA roster. Some of them could barely make a jumper. 第一, ABA和NBA的確還沒有合併,但是扣掉我能想起來的五個明星外, ABA當時已經比NBA弱了。 2. Travel The Heat have their own plane. The Lakers flew commercial. Sometimes -- coach. Sometimes -- layovers. Here's how different road life was: They'd have to take their uniforms back to their rooms and dry them over the shower bar. One game during the streak, they played in Chicago, woke up the next morning, went to O'Hare for their flight to a 7 p.m. game that night in Philly, and couldn't take off for five hours. "We just sat on the plane forever," West remembers. "And this was the day of the game. That's when Wilt [Chamberlain] said, 'If I had a gun, I'd shoot somebody right now.' Next thing I knew, they were pulling him off. We didn't see him again until 6:55 that night!" (Not that it wasn't fun. They used to find somebody short, surround him on all sides, and begin talking over the poor guy's head. Six or seven 6-foot-6 guys pretending they didn't know he was down there. "Some guy would be trying to get his luggage and he'd have nowhere to go. We'd do it on elevators, too.") 第二,交通。 熱火有包機,湖人當時只能坐客機,辛苦多了。 3. Back-to-back-to-backs The Lakers played three games in three nights four times during the streak alone. Playing three games in three nights is as dead now in the NBA as the set shot. If you asked the Heat to do it even once you'd be hearing from their lawyers. 第三,背靠背靠背。 湖人的33連勝有四次背靠背靠背ㄟ,熱火的賽程算什麼。 4. Two questions If the competition is so superior now, as James says it is, how come two of the three greatest streaks in league history have come in the past six years? Why are four of the top seven from 2000 and later? 第四,回答我: 1. 如果當時的聯盟比較弱,為什麼前三連勝多的有兩次在這六年內發生? (指熱火和火箭) 2. 又前七名有四次發生在21世紀? 5. None-and-dones In those days, no player could come to the league until his college class had graduated. There's a huge difference between playing against veterans and a lot of six-whisker 19-year-olds who've never checked into a hotel much less into a 260-pound center. "We weren't playing against a bunch of kids," says West. "We were playing men." 第五,現在一堆高中跳級或大一輟學的小朋友, 那時候的聯盟大家可是都是跟大人打球。 6. Beasts The NBA in those days was a kind of traveling triage. Every team seemed to have some walking Sears Tower in the middle who handed out contusions free of charge. And yet, during the streak alone, the Lakers beat Wes Unseld (Baltimore), Nate Thurmond (Golden State), Elvin Hayes (Houston), Bob Lanier (Detroit) and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Milwaukee), who finally killed the streak with 39 points at home. Would you rather play them or Bismack Biyombo? "It's funny," West says. "After the games, we weren't all that excited about the streak. We were excited about how much money we'd just made. They paid us $5 for every assist, steal and blocked shot. I can remember Wilt would get 14 or 15 blocked shots some nights. I'd get 10 steals in a night, no problem. We'd go back to the locker room and try to add it up." Can't you see Heat coach Erik Spoelstra handing LeBron James $105 and saying, "Now you save some of this, young man." 第六,內線怪獸。 那時候每一個球隊都有內線怪獸。 現在你數幾個出來給我看看啊~~ 7. Immortality The Lakers made those 33 look easier than the People crossword. Only one opponent finished within four points of them. (Heat: five times, so far.) They trailed at halftime in four games. (Heat: nine times.) Only once did they trail after three quarters. (Heat: five times.) The Lakers' margin of victory was almost 50 percent more than the Heat's. The Heat have needed luck that the Lakers never did. They beat Boston (barely) without Kevin Garnett, Chicago without Derrick Rose and Cleveland (barely) without Kyrie Irving. It has been a squeaky streak. The Lakers -- with West, Wilt and the purest shooter in the game at the time, Gail Goodrich -- were a tidal wave of O that has rarely been seen in basketball since. They scored over 120 points 22 times in that streak, with no 3-point line. They laid 154 on the Philadelphia 76ers one night during the streak, without overtime. Then, of course, they cleaned out the New York Knicks in five games to win the title. "We just didn't see how anybody could beat us," West says. The one opponent the Heat have that is much tougher is the media. The Heat are covered like freckles on a redhead 24/7 by dozens and dozens of daily media. The Lakers had one traveling beat writer, my old pal, the late Mal Florence, from the Los Angeles Times. When they finally lost in Milwaukee, his editor called him off the trip early to save money. The next morning, Lakers coach Bill Sharman saw Mal holding his suitcase in front of the hotel, waiting for a cab. "Where you going?" Sharman asked. Without a pause, Mal sniffed, "I don't cover losers." 第七,連勝內容。 拜託,湖人當時可是摧枯拉朽的33連勝ㄟ,沒有一場球需要靠「運氣」。 哪像熱火那麼抖,打沒有KG的老賽和沒有Rose的公牛或是沒有Irving的騎士 都抖的跟什麼一樣。 好啦,熱火唯一比較困難的是現今的媒體生態啦, 其他跟湖人當初沒得比。 ============================================================= 心得: 自從熱火連勝進入18場以後開始看到很多比較文, 衝破22之後更是每一場都有不同的名嘴出來把33vs2x比較一番 這一篇算是集挺湖人33連勝較優為大成的文章,足足列出七項原因試圖打臉 不過我想以ptt年輕族群為大宗的鄉民看起來應該也一眼就看出 這個作者肯定是個老頭(的確,60歲)。 我只想提出一個比較不常被討論的現象, 也就是現在的NBA比40年前的NBA應該是更優秀的主因, 在於參與人數(talent pool)的多寡。 我認為這跟整個社會經濟發展都有關。 尤其當時的年代即使在美國民風(尤其對黑人)還是相對保守, 學校的培養等等並不會著重甚至像現在一樣的鼓勵運動員走向職業運動。 這差別有一點像是台灣當年特殊的聯考制度。 以第一志願科系而言,60年代能進醫學系遭遇到的競爭不會有現在大, 主因就是現在的talent pool多了很多。 早期年代很多人被「稀釋」到五專高職甚至提早進入社會幫忙家庭的很多, 但是在穩定的經濟年代的現在,大家都能進高中,也不需要 提早進入社會。大家都進入talent pool,錄取名額還是一樣的話, 自然錄取率整體來看是下降的。 當時的NBA,第一,合格進入大學的黑人就少,即使當時對種族的民智漸開, 但是絕對比不上現在多元。很多黑人也不被鼓勵走這條路。 其實就算是擅長運動的白人,很多也不會以進入職業運動為職志。 第二,當時NBA的薪水並沒有跟其他行業差別那麼巨大。至少不像現在這樣。 基本上現在的NBA只要你有機會進入簽個10天約都比一般平均薪水高。 在這樣大的誘因下,自然很多人,尤其很多黑人反而從小就做起NBA夢。 現在的NBA則因為成功的商業經營,能吸引全世界最優秀的運動員來競爭, 光這一點,我認為就是40年前的NBA比不過的了。 當然,言歸正傳,回到比較熱火連勝還是湖人連勝優,我認為就變得沒意義。 作者洋洋灑灑寫的七大原因我覺得大部份都是真的所謂的貴古賤今的思維, 尤其像是2,3,5,6點都是整個聯盟的走向,不是只有當時的湖人在面對, 那基準線就是一樣的,你b2b2b,你的對手也b2b2b,那有啥好說那是劣勢? 至於第一點ABA,我是真的不熟那時候ABA是不是真的差NBA那麼多無從評論。 第七點,我的看法是熱火這波連勝其實還滿隨性的.... 有幾場球我認為熱火根本在養身,只是正好贏了.... 囧 當然啦,搞不好當初的湖人也很養身只是就是能贏人家30分吧 至於第四點,就交給廣大鄉民來回答了。 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 72.34.128.250

03/28 07:36, , 1F
03/28 07:36, 1F

03/28 07:37, , 2F
不是很喜歡這種貴古賤今的評論
03/28 07:37, 2F

03/28 07:38, , 3F
這篇一定是湖迷的評論員寫的
03/28 07:38, 3F

03/28 07:38, , 4F
原PO辛苦翻譯不給推也給個箭頭嘛~
03/28 07:38, 4F

03/28 07:39, , 5F
(不負責任言論 不要找資料打我臉
03/28 07:39, 5F

03/28 07:40, , 6F
作者是不是湖迷我其實不知道,Rick Reilly算是有名的
03/28 07:40, 6F

03/28 07:40, , 7F
寫手就是,至於他說的其實我也不同意,不過值得討論
03/28 07:40, 7F

03/28 07:40, , 8F
可以摧枯拉朽連勝不就代表當時對手比較弱?
03/28 07:40, 8F

03/28 07:40, , 9F
言之有物給推
03/28 07:40, 9F

03/28 07:40, , 10F
翻譯文的內容完全不讚同,推原po評析
03/28 07:40, 10F

03/28 07:41, , 11F
補推
03/28 07:41, 11F

03/28 07:44, , 12F
推原PO評論 那七點很廢
03/28 07:44, 12F

03/28 07:44, , 13F
雖然討厭熱火,但也覺得這種比較沒意義
03/28 07:44, 13F

03/28 07:44, , 14F
第6點不認同 現在的確內線不比之前強 但是熱火更本沒
03/28 07:44, 14F

03/28 07:45, , 15F
熱火迷迷出動囉!
03/28 07:45, 15F

03/28 07:45, , 16F
正統中鋒 這樣感覺熱火要連勝更困難而已
03/28 07:45, 16F

03/28 07:45, , 17F
推翻譯和心得
03/28 07:45, 17F

03/28 07:47, , 18F
蠻同意一點的 現在的中鋒~"~
03/28 07:47, 18F

03/28 07:48, , 19F
第7點 還蠻無聊的 贏就是贏 難道總冠軍沒把別人輾過
03/28 07:48, 19F

03/28 07:48, , 20F
同意原PO,當時的確較封閉。
03/28 07:48, 20F

03/28 07:48, , 21F
針對1:表示還是有優秀球員不在NBA裡.
03/28 07:48, 21F

03/28 07:48, , 22F
也代表那個冠軍比其他冠軍弱?
03/28 07:48, 22F

03/28 07:49, , 23F
針對2和3:同時代的對手條件相同,沒有優勢.
03/28 07:49, 23F

03/28 07:49, , 24F
超討厭熱火 不過這波連勝是真才實料的
03/28 07:49, 24F

03/28 07:49, , 25F
內線怪獸是在說自己湖人嗎?
03/28 07:49, 25F

03/28 07:51, , 26F
針對5,6:時代不同,NBA的球風已經轉型了.
03/28 07:51, 26F

03/28 07:51, , 27F
張大帥平均快20籃版 然後說聯盟中其他隊有禁區怪物
03/28 07:51, 27F

03/28 07:52, , 28F
很多要素都不同,硬要張飛戰岳飛不可能比啦
03/28 07:52, 28F

03/28 07:53, , 29F
無聊
03/28 07:53, 29F

03/28 07:53, , 30F
純粹是個貴古賤今的老頭的牢騷罷了
03/28 07:53, 30F

03/28 07:54, , 31F
熱火明星隊 用錢堆的
03/28 07:54, 31F

03/28 07:54, , 32F
看到2. Travel的標題 我以為他要說的是走步
03/28 07:54, 32F

03/28 07:56, , 33F
總比某隊用1億美金堆到現在在搶老八的好
03/28 07:56, 33F

03/28 07:56, , 34F
第六點 BOSH表示:
03/28 07:56, 34F

03/28 07:57, , 35F
03/28 07:57, 35F

03/28 07:59, , 36F
當年的NBA薪水低,不像現在是薪水榜首,人人搶著打
03/28 07:59, 36F

03/28 07:59, , 37F
有差嗎不都是連勝
03/28 07:59, 37F

03/28 08:00, , 38F
很沒說服力的觀點
03/28 08:00, 38F

03/28 08:01, , 39F
毫無邏輯的推論
03/28 08:01, 39F
還有 121 則推文
03/28 10:23, , 161F
這七個理由都蠻弱的
03/28 10:23, 161F

03/28 10:27, , 162F
根本在自慰而已
03/28 10:27, 162F

03/28 10:28, , 163F
熱火的陣容跟當時的湖人比... LBJ真正神
03/28 10:28, 163F

03/28 10:29, , 164F
火火出籠了
03/28 10:29, 164F

03/28 10:37, , 165F
等33連勝再來討論吧
03/28 10:37, 165F

03/28 10:40, , 166F
只要提一點就可以了,當時沒有把明星球員集合在同一隊
03/28 10:40, 166F

03/28 10:44, , 167F
每個人都很會講 但是又打不出連勝的更多XD
03/28 10:44, 167F

03/28 10:45, , 168F
當時不用集合就是明星群集了
03/28 10:45, 168F

03/28 10:46, , 169F
熱火被公牛終結連勝了
03/28 10:46, 169F

03/28 10:48, , 170F
ASIK的身材在70年代大該每場30+個籃板
03/28 10:48, 170F

03/28 10:51, , 171F
GG
03/28 10:51, 171F

03/28 10:52, , 172F
好像很厲害
03/28 10:52, 172F

03/28 10:53, , 173F
火迷攻擊~
03/28 10:53, 173F

03/28 10:54, , 174F
贊成!
03/28 10:54, 174F

03/28 10:56, , 175F
講成這樣怎麼看不到今年的湖人27連勝?一億鎂欸
03/28 10:56, 175F

03/28 11:00, , 176F
火迷快上阿
03/28 11:00, 176F

03/28 11:01, , 177F
很有道理
03/28 11:01, 177F

03/28 11:02, , 178F
貴古賤今
03/28 11:02, 178F

03/28 11:03, , 179F
體能差那麼多...以前的內線怪獸 現在只能打後衛吧
03/28 11:03, 179F

03/28 11:07, , 180F
廢文
03/28 11:07, 180F

03/28 11:09, , 181F
張伯倫打現在壯度和高度的NBA禁區可以場均30分嗎?
03/28 11:09, 181F

03/28 11:15, , 182F
好拉好啦 27連勝而已 沒老人厲害 XD
03/28 11:15, 182F

03/28 11:16, , 183F
不過如果熱火今年能連霸 就能反嗆當年湖人沒連霸了XD
03/28 11:16, 183F

03/28 11:16, , 184F
慢走不送
03/28 11:16, 184F

03/28 11:19, , 185F
中肯
03/28 11:19, 185F

03/28 12:03, , 186F
無聊
03/28 12:03, 186F

03/28 12:23, , 187F
當時沒有LYS
03/28 12:23, 187F

03/28 12:32, , 188F
沒意義 兩邊都33勝比起來才有點意義
03/28 12:32, 188F

03/28 12:32, , 189F
我的27比你的33大?是要比三小
03/28 12:32, 189F

03/28 15:58, , 190F
telent pool會影響到球員統治力 但球隊連勝!?
03/28 15:58, 190F

03/28 16:17, , 191F
talent pool你怎麼證明當時去打得比較差
03/28 16:17, 191F

03/28 16:34, , 192F
我覺得LBJ其實對籃球史學滿有興趣的
03/28 16:34, 192F

03/28 16:50, , 193F
當時的吹判可不會像現在這樣寵壞皇子 一碰就叫媽媽
03/28 16:50, 193F

03/28 17:24, , 194F
廢話 33跟27都不一樣了是要怎麼比...
03/28 17:24, 194F

03/28 20:37, , 195F
怎麼那麼多人激動 原PO的用意不就是討論
03/28 20:37, 195F

03/28 20:37, , 196F
結果一堆火迷或反火都在謾罵 = =
03/28 20:37, 196F

03/28 20:39, , 197F
不過他說B2B2B是劣勢是相對於現在的賽制吧
03/28 20:39, 197F

03/28 20:39, , 198F
不是指相對於湖人當時的對手 交通那點也是把當時狀況
03/28 20:39, 198F

03/28 20:39, , 199F
跟現在比
03/28 20:39, 199F

03/28 20:40, , 200F
不過年代不同根本沒啥好比的
03/28 20:40, 200F
文章代碼(AID): #1HKu84-j (NBA)